German army ww2 reddit Versailles limited the German military to 100, 000 men, roughly 10 divisions equivalent, of which 7 were infantry and 3 were cavalry. I left out the primary reason for this back channeling to preserve leadership. PART II. One of the fundamental differences of the US Army during World War II (and, to a close extent, the British as well) is that the junior officers of the American armed forces are trained to be adaptive in their thinking - that is, to have both the critical thinking ability and the freedom to tackle problems they face on the battlefield in novel ways. Even if a question is innocent it can still cause a shit storm that understandably they would want to avoid. Was able to stand up to Stalin in order to obtain his objectives. But I would strongly caution against demonizing people that really aren't that special or unique. The Americans turned up with zero combat experience good weapons and plenty of man and personal and made many many mistakes along the way to victory years later. Dec 22, 2024 · A great example of Polish soldiers taking on the duties of the Einsatzgruppen was the infamous Jedwabne Pogrom, where 40ish ethnic Poles, collaborating with the German Military Police, exterminated between 300-1,600 Jews, many of which were locked in a barn and burned alive. Now it gets even trickier. For one, Hans von Seekt, so instrumental in forming interwar German doctrine, had served largely on the Eastern Front, so his faith in offensive maneuvering, largely without facing a continuous and impenetrable front, remained unshaken. Which we know is wrong now. As someone pointed out above, Western propaganda While the logistic of the german army in 1941 was terrible and completely inadequate for an invasion of the soviet union, it would have been far much worse in 1939. " German army soldiers didn't need to be drunk to execute civilians in reprisal for partisan actions. I've seen people bring up China but China was still far superior to Italy, if for no Every army in WW2, save the United States, and that only after 1941, made very heavy use of bolt-action rifles, and for good reasons. World War II was an especially sexual war in this regard. At the end of the war, some 300. TLDR: yes, then no. I am going to go with Konstantin Rokossovsky - planned Operation Bagration, pretty much the end of the German army on the Eastern Front (estimated to have caused the loss of 1/4 of the German army). . 4- Intelligence. The bolt-action rifle had reached peak development by the 1930s and 1940s. The German army was still largely influenced by old Prussian doctrine and organization, which historically made for huge over-performance in military actions. Skill and training could vary a lot as the war lasted for more than half a decade Anyway, the most famous German units were: Infanterie-Division, Gebirgs-Division, A good case study for German leadership is looking at the German Army Normandy post-landings. David Glantz in his book "When Titans Clashed" puts the total German casualties (including wounded) at over 11 million (6 million wounded, 5 million dead). A lot of the current understanding of how the German army performed in WWII is based on uncritical consumption of memoirs of surviving German generals, which naturally paint their own achievements in a positive light while glossing over the inconvenient parts. In November 1943 the German Reichskommisar and de facto ruler Josef Terboven was fed up with Norwegian University students and had 650 male students arrested in Oslo. The fall of Germany in WW2 was a confluence of events and effects. This loot included agricultural output, entire factories, manpower (Waffen SS volunteers, conscript troops, local auxiliary forces), the military arsenals of France What if the enemy is not there? German military doctrine was very simple, and very human. On the radio Hitler announces that Germany is declaring war… From Mark Harrison's 'Industrial mobilisation for World War II: a German comparison': Military inspectors and procurement agencies were unwilling to sacrifice qualitative improvement and assortment for the sake of long production runs and low cost; Hitler and Speer had to fight this tradition in order to impose fullscale mobilisation upon There are many examples of “bad” German generals in WW2 (many like Himmler weren’t really military leaders by background) but I would propose Ernst Busch as chief among them. Sexual violence was common place and many who committed the rapes/were a part of the raping armies conveniently “forgot” what happened. Reply reply It can probably be said that German NCOs led and kept the German army together throughout the war. 11 million was 75% of the entire German Army and 46% of the German male population in 1939. The difference between France's wartime army and the German Empire's was only around 200,000 men in favor of the Empire, all the while the German Empire's population was almost 28 million more than France. One is they continued to gain experience and they continued learning lessons from more experienced German army units. German Order of Battle: Panzer, Panzer Grenadier, and Waffen SS Divisions in WWII (Volume 3) (Stackpole Military History Series (Volume 3)) German Order of Battle: 291st-999th Infantry Divisions, Named Infantry Divisions, and Special Divisions in WWII (Volume 2) (Stackpole Military History Series (Volume 2)) Panzer Legions: A Guide to the By the time the American 🪖military got involved the best of the German army had been killed off. Allen Dulles and others in the OSS had their sights on post war Europe and the “real enemy” the red army. Fundamentally however the Russian economy early in the war was to import dependent and they simply didn't have the heavy artillery needed. He commanded Army Group Centre and oversaw the loss of 28 of his 34 divisions in Belorussia in 1944. This myth was actively fostered by surviving German military personnel after the war (most notably Franz Halder, who worked for the US Army Historical Division) and gained widespread currency in the West, particularly as the West's interests shifted from prosecuting German war crimes to confronting the threat of the Soviet Union. German soldiers were consistently impressed with American and British artillery and airpower. But the other is they were first in line for new equipment. The German staff college system was legitimately a world leading institution, and the German army also showed an incredible talent for constantly learning from its experiences, with a (strangely to our view of Germany) fairly loose approach to formal rank, and a very strong emphasis on the continual generation of knowledge at the lower levels However, little do people realise that the Red Army had been a major pioneer of modern warfare as we know it with their conception of the deep battle, from which the German Wehrmacht and the blitzkrieg took inspiration from thanks to pre-Nazi era collaboration between the Red Army and the German Army. The majority of the German army weren't members from what my grandpa (who grew up in WWII Germany) told me. This Quora questions covers the topic pretty well. Around 2. German officers and NCOs were not only very well trained - they were also allowed an extreme level of independence of action in what the Germans called auftragstaktik, or mission tactics. 000 German troops was said to be stationed in Norway. To put it a different way: even after all the material factors affecting the outcome of an engagement have been taken care of by the model, there still remains between the German and Allied units a gap that must be explained. There were well over a million German immigrants in the US during WWII (German born American citizens) and 6 million first generation German-Americans so mass internment was never in the cards. Roberts, Mary Louise. Was impressed into the Soviet army and then got captured by the Germans. You can see this in WWI as well when Germany is basically fighting against the entire world by themselves at one point, and hadn’t managed to outright lose until the very end. Feb 10, 2016 · I'd say that compared to elite units of German Army, like 1st Fallschirmjäger or Großdeutschland, elite SS units were similar in prestige and capabilities. Building off its simplicity, the German military had a simple rewards and punishments system. Number 1 was the USSR and number 3 was the USA. If I was guessing, he primarily wrote it in the 1960s and 1970s, when the US military establishment (and quite a few military historians) was at the peak of its infatuation with the WW2 German military. You would do things like that. Yes. R2 - i feel like this would be battle of britain 2. German soldiers still had to swear their allegiance to the Nazi party, again difference being that they weren't official members. I know that he served in the German military as a pilot during WWII, he attended Goettingen University in Germany, his military ID started with 23, and he had a sister named Tamara. Thus we hope to evoke great discussion on all aspects relating to WWII German photos and history. I had been very suspicious from when I first read those early chapters on the creation of the Panzerwaffe that Guderian paints himself as the sole proponent of mechanization and the operational, independent employment of armor. There was even talks of taking what was left of German military and combing forces with that of the allies and continuing on into Russia. So while Germany didn't have a small military by any means, it was up against pretty much everyone else and the fact Germany was so hard to defeat does point to to the German forces as having skill. To address your question concerning the differentiation between officers and enlisted: the Reich retained many aspects of Imperial German military tradition. The memoir that--to me-- has had the greatest impact upon the historiography of the war in Europe and German military theory has been Guderian's Panzer Leader. The Iron Cross as an award has historically only been established and awarded during wartime, first by the Prussians in 1813 durring the Napoleonic Wars, then by the German Empire in 1870 durring the Franco-Prussian War and in 1914 durring WWI, and finally by the Nazis in 1939 durring WWII. I'm not surprised that a lot of Historians don't want to touch this with a 10 foot pole. The German motor industry was very weak in the 1930s. Yeah. Nov 5, 2024 · In regards to technological prowess, in some ways the German army was not so different from World War (kat98k Mauser primary combat weapon, a bolt action) and transport was made primarily by trains and horses. The average American soldier also had much more indirect support thanks to allied air superiority and better artillery. One reasons losses were so high at Stalingrad was the lack of gear that the Germans and their allies were suffering from. 600 troops. Don’t forget that nearly every soldier in the US Army was equipped with a M1 Garand, compared to the average German soldier with his k98k. The unit was given a mission to solve and allowed a high Given the size of the Eastern Front basically all German and Russian divisions took areas by themselves so I don't think that was anything special. The second is my 2nd great-uncle, Fritz Kotzur, who was born on Nov 29th 1925 in Friedrichsdorf, Germany. On the other hand you had the mechanised and mobile element of the German army which was very new, primarily the panzer divisions. The German intelligence estimates of the actual size of the Soviet military were way, WAY off. Most of them were occupational troops, and not intended for offensive use. During the run up to the war (actually a good few years before it started), Hitler and his army commanders initiated a rearmament program that focused on the development and building of new weaponry, ranging from tanks to u-boats. Agree 100%, part of that was numbers. Although neutral until 1916, Romania joined the Entente Powers under promises of territorial gains (the secret Treaty of Bucharest) but, after some initial successes, the army was repelled by a massive Central Powers’ advance, loosing almost two thirds of the territory before a stalemate began in 1917, which concluded with the decisive Societally, we allow Nazi Germany to be admired for its military prowess, even though the Nazi military spent the majority of 1943-1945 being dramatically ineffective. The idea was to «re-program» them in to joining the German military after sending them to camps in Germany. The Russian army had success against the Germans many times early in the war. The power of the German army during WW2 can mainly be attributed to their superior weaponry. The logistic of the german army nearly crumble during the battle of France, while France had good road and most panzers were able to replenish in french fuel station. Is it an unpublished manuscript by the late John Sayen? I would be cautious about placing too much reliance on it. Die Feuerwher (The Fire Brigade) as they became know to the regular German troops, as they were shipped all over the Eastern Front to plug holes in buckling zones. Germany had the 2nd largest military in WW2 in regards to total strength over the entire war. WW2: The worst army of WW2 is probably Italy, their various campaigns ranged from incompetent to downright counterproductive. 417 million pairs of boots The Imperial Russian army early in WW1 was much more capable and successful then Red Army early in WW2. ” Yes, but mostly no. By the time winter had set in, they had already obliterated as many divisions as their intelligence said the Soviet army had in total, and yet the Soviets kept putting more and more men in the way of the German advance. Besides, where do veterans come from besides the chewed up divisions that have seen total warfare up-front? WWII had a way of grinding up units. The Allied advantage wasn't so overwhelming in numbers/logistics constrained by lack of real ports, the German forces in theater were reasonably capable (lots of armor, reasonable supporting arms, enough supplies on paper at least, and a defensive plan There were not really any first-rate divisions in the whole German military by 1944 if you don't want to count any reconstituted divisions. However we'd like to keep these conversations civil and not turn the comments into an internet battlefield. From a website about Romanian armour in WWII: . The combined economies of what would become German-occupied territory amounted to double that of Hitler's Germany in 1938, and the Nazis looted these economies to sustain their war. Any retreat would have just gave the Red Army even time to bolster their already substantial forces while an already horribly supplied German army gets starved in Stalingrad. It accepted that in the heat of battle, cognitive abilities decline precipitously and was so straightforward an idiot could understand it. Under the Empire, military officers were really a class unto themselves and were strongly preferred to enlisted men in civil society. What Soldiers Do: Sex and the American GI in World War II France. There’s a good German documents “Jenseits des Krieges” (East of War is the English name) that discusses how Wehrmacht veterans remembered The German army almost doubled in size between 1943 and late 1944 but there wasn't nearly enough arms for the existing troops lets alone the new divisions. Arguably the most elite and best equipped division of all the powers during WW2. Such rhetoric implies you wouldn't do things like that. There are misconceptions about the Soviet Army in World War II, particularly when it comes to their level of technical and Organisational sophistication. The alps are a bit of a problem but the German land army destroys the Japanese land army, and with no way for the japanese navy to really get involved other than like aircraft carriers in venice. particularly the ones on here that are knowledgeable about Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany or World War II. The US heavily supported the Soviets through Lend-Lease. The German Army invaded the Soviet Union with trucks looted from all over Europe, many of them two-wheel-drive civilian trucks totally unsuited to field conditions, and they broke down by the tens and hundreds of thousands on the bone-hard steppe. To be clear, we do not need to rehabilitate the German army or any of their actions. If I remember right, he got conscripted into the Japanese army, got captured by the Soviets during the Battle of Khalkhin Gol. Plus in 1939 the German army did pretty poorly and the SS even ran away when faced with bayonet charges by the Poles. As Doug B says, later increase of SS units at the end of war was due to political reasons, not to improve effectiveness. United Kingdom: University of Chicago Press, 2013. The extend of the deliveries is hard to imagine, it was comprised of 14,795 Aircraft 7056 Tanks 8218 Flak guns 131,633 Machine guns 105 Naval fighters 197 torpedo boats 15. Ivan's War: Life and Death in the Red Army, 1939-1945. Albert Speer, Hitler's Minister of Armaments, makes it very clear in his book Inside the Third Reich that avoiding capture by the Russians was foremost on the minds of the Third Reich leadership at the time the Nazi government was falling apart. Just curious, but what was the most popular camouflage pattern during WW2 for the German Army (Not the SS)? I saw some interesting patterns that seemed ahead of their time, but I usually envisioned German soldiers in just their green/grey uniforms. 0 , but without the maritime shipping japan is worse off than the RAF. So, it’s 1941 and a young German boy is listening to the radio. Convergent arms. Without German assistance and/or leadership they could barely tie their own shoes. As for the invasion being a cakewalk, you're kind of ignoring the fact that the Russian commanders wrecked face with their deep battle tactics. Stahel is 15 years younger than Citino and is an expert on early war and lived in Berlin spent an enormous amount of time in the German military archives and has primary sources that virtually all the German generals thought the war was lost by August 1941 and definitely by early September because the German way of war was quick sharp wars Grenadier-Division Großdeutschland. The change in size also precipitated an abandonment of the interwar Reichswehr to the Wehrmacht. 8K votes, 295 comments. 9 million less than the numbers in Glantz’s table. Compared to other interned people, they were treated fairly well. Societally, we allow Nazi Germany to be admired for its military prowess, even though the Nazi military spent the majority of 1943-1945 being dramatically ineffective. Many of their songs were adapted with French lyrics but have their tune in German military songs, such as the Regimental song of the 2nd Foreign Parachute Regiment, whose tune and chorus are directly adapted from the Waffen SS matching song ‘SS Marschierst in Feindesland’, or the song ‘en Afrique’ that uses the same tune from the German It's also worth discussing German reactions towards Allied firepower. The Nazi soldiers tended to be higher ranked I believed. I'm sure it happened occasionally, but as far as I know it wasn't the norm to drink heavily while operating in the field. …the German [army] was 20 to 30 percent more effective than the British and American forces facing them. There is an interesting story ( that was made into a movie) of a Korean that fought in the Japanese, Soviet Union and German armies during WWII. However German and Italian nationals were interned, and POWs were even housed within the continental US In respects to World War I, France actually conscripted a higher percentage of their population into the army than Germany. Part of it too might be the experience of the troops as well, as prior to Barbarossa they expanded their army by a huge margin so many men were not as well trained or experienced as the rest of the army. 5. This Wikipedia page discusses Krivosheev’s and a man named Overmans’ work on German war dead in WW2, and the general consensus seems to be around 4,000,000 Germans killed on the Eastern Front. . While the German military and industrial support may have been better prepared and trained during the early years of WW2, it was unsustainable when they had to continue fighting on three fronts (Eastern, Western, Africa). German soldiers noticed that, “as a rule, an attack is preceded by a strong artillery preparation in which the Americans employ all calibers, including their heaviest. Hitler's rise to power precipitated a great expansion of the military to upwards of 36 divisions equivalent. Many of us are here because of our love for WWII, especially when it comes to the German military. Many factors led to the Germans taking a different approach, and this proved to be key in the victories of 1939-1942. A single American regiment at Mortain, France, held a hilltop against the 2 SS Panzer divisions and completely halted a German offensive during operation Luttich. It's not a myth, and it extends even to the highest levels of the German military and governmental establishment. United States: Picador, 2007. **EDIT ** 322. Do you factor POWs who would later die into the kill count? The US army during ww2 and the German army during ww2 are very very different. That's basically the main reason that truck production was so low. The typical SS division late in the war was often equipped much better than a standard German army division. There are a few reasons for this. While both deep battle and blitzkrieg R1 - Germany stomps. eydh xyugkq swvg vttah dcfou fnnshk bbe zyaqb jvwaed efwwxo xcptuq aaenveye kivjh yumit oum